Episode 186: The Subtle Art of Substitutions

Vonda: So Lori, my big question is, how many hot dogs did you eat over the 4th of July?

Lori: All right, so here's my confession. Actually, the 4th of July, if I'm being completely truthful, I did not eat a hot dog the day of the actual 4th of July. Okay. However, they were purchased, they were in the refrigerator, all of the stuff.

But I didn't eat one because I made chicken burgers. We did grilled chicken burgers, which are one of my favorite things. However, a few days later, we did the grilled hot dog. One? Well, no. I didn't, but here's what I did. I had one legit full on cream cheese, the whole fixin's, the whole thing. Right. And then I went back, but here's what I did.

I did one with the no bun. I just did everything else without the bun, thinking, okay, well, I'm not gonna get so full. Yes. And I didn't get so full. But I still felt really bad after.

Vonda: And did you get sick though?

Lori: I didn't get sick like nor lay on the bathroom floor sick like normal, but I did not feel good. I will tell you that I didn't feel good and I, but I didn't get a headache. I didn't get like a full on headache. I didn't not get a headache, but I did get a full on headache. So, I call it a win. I feel like I did better. I did better than normal. I did get quite a few, I think I told you, I was surprised at how many people either texted me or Facebook messaged me or emailed me and asked: Hey, how was your hot dog with cream cheese?

Vonda: I love it. Well, you will be surprised that on the 3rd, the 4th and the 5th, I had hot dogs in Chicago but from the devil dogs. Well, one day it was from, I think it was from the Home Depot little place that are there. We had a little runner, um, Hyro, and he was there and he was like, what do you, what do you guys want for lunch?

And we're like, hot dogs. So three days in a row. So were they amazing? They were great. They were great. Hot peppers, you know, looks absolutely disgusting because it's dyed green.

Lori: And yes, you don't look at them. You just eat them. So anyway, I saw all the pictures at AIFD. I probably saw more pictures of Renee Tucci posting hot dogs than flowers.

Like that's what cracked me up. I loved it. I was like, God, I don't know which is more beautiful. The hot dogs or all the flowers.

Vonda: It was the flowers hands down. But anyway, it was good. But I'm glad to hear the hot dog report. Cause I think that was very important.

Lori: I recovered. I recovered and it was good. And I'm going to do the same thing next year. So that is my plan.

Vonda: So let's bring in our special guest today and ask her about hot dogs. What do you think?

Lori: Oh, yes. Yes I already know the answer to me. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. I know what she will say. How are you?

Abby: I'm well. Okay. What do you think my hot dog story is?

Lori: I'm gonna say you probably love them, but like me, they probably give you tummy aches.

Abby: That's correct. I used to eat a hot dog every day. The first shop that I worked at, there's this old famous hot dog place in our town, and it's called Jess's Famous Hot Dogs, was right down the street, and I would walk down there and have a Mountain Dew and a hot dog every single day for lunch for years and my dentist and my gastroenterologist would be happy to know that I have not had a hot dog or a Mountain Dew in years. Yeah.

Lori: Yeah. Wow. That's back in the day when our tummies didn't care and could do anything. Yeah.

Abby: Yeah. The good old days. No hot dogs. But man, they were good. But I enjoyed all of the other, uh, 4th of July festivities, but my husband. birthday is the day after his birthday is on the fifth. So we always do like, you know, a big birthday celebration thing rolled in. So it's, it's like a full on week of celebrations. It's great. Yes. I was dipping out of all the family celebrations to check in with Instagram and look at what was going on in Chicago at AIFD.

Yeah. Just a lot of FOMO. Over here, . You have a good time?

Vonda: Oh, it was great. It was a great time. Yeah. I was in the flower room 99% of the time, which is where I wanna be. You know, that's where you can see everybody really doing the work and all the behind the scenes. And, but also, you know, we were the runners. We were the ones that were walking washing buckets and we were emptying the garbage. So, you know…

Abby: Somebody's gotta do it. Wow.

Lori: You know, one thing I thought was interesting, I think I, I was talking to you about that, this Vonda, um, Jackie Lacey and Renato Cruz did little Facebook lives during, and I loved it.

I don't know if I was the only one watching it. I don't think I was, but I really liked it because they were giving a little behind the scenes. Because I think a lot of people that have never been to AIFD weren't super clear on exactly what it was. So they did a really good job. But one thing, they answered a question I have always wondered, why is it over 4th of July?

Because from my perspective, not owning a flower shop, I'm like, why do they do this for a holiday? Like this is our holiday. Like, you know, but one of the reasons they said is it's usually a down holiday. For flower shop owners. So it really is a good time for flower shop owners to be able to come and get education and and to be able to take off work.

Vonda: And it's also a time that hotels don't have a lot of things booked. Because that was to get a better price on, booking rooms in the convention centers.

Lori: I didn't ever know that. I thought that was really interesting. And so I just wanted to pass that along for other flower shops that I think they can't go.

I'm like, that really, really might be the only time you can take off.

Abby: Yeah, how do you think I have the time to sit here and chat with you guys today? It's the, it's the early July summer slump. The whole, the whole team's, you know, back there holding down the fort today and I mean, I, I love this time of year because it's the only break that I feel like I get, but it's, it's tough, you know, you're going to get through the July slump, but I feel like every year, do you ever really get comfortable when things slow down, you know, you try to make the best of it, you know, and prepare for the future or find creative things to do in the shop. I always do a lot of team training sessions this time of year. If I'm not, you know, traveling to, you know, do education, then I think it's a great time to sort of like, get your staff together and really on the ball so that when I always say the faucet turns on, I don't know why I say it like that, but that we are ready to go.

So just trying to make use of the slow times is imperative.

Vonda: So that's a perfect segue right into what's going on, right? So on Wednesday the 19th, which will be the day after this goes live, we're holding something called the Subtle Art of Substitutions. And you're the, you're the mastermind behind this whole thing.

And we appreciate you being here and going to be showing anybody who joins the session. Really, what, substitutions are all about and why it's not just like a rose for a rose, a carnation for a carnation. And so I'm gonna ask you first, why is this subject so important for, I mean, most of the listeners, it's a no brainer, but why is it so important?

Abby: Yeah, so the crazy thing about this is that on its face, it's, you know, a design training, right? Bye. It's really, I mean, this is at the heart of sustainability and profitability. You know, it directly relates to you making more money in your business, being able to use what you have on hand and also.

Avoiding customer complaints. You know, that's the one thing that, you know, we were talking, I said, you know, what problem I see all the time is florists complaining about their customers saying it didn't look like the picture and it kind of, I was like, you know what, I haven't had that problem in a very long time.

And as you and I started discussing, okay, why is that? You know, is it the flower click pictures that I have it on my website? So we. started really studying the why behind why am I not getting these complaints? What am I doing? What is my understanding of substituting and how I train my staff? And, um, we actually, we did this webinar. And had such an amazing response to it. And I had, you know, friends and florists who were so upset about missing it. We thought, we got to do this again. It's a good one.

Vonda: It is a good one. It is good. So what should anyone who joins this webinar, this mastermind session?

Abby: Well, I think, you know, you have to go in with an open mind.

You, you can't think, Oh, I've been designing for 35 years. So I know how to design because this is really, we're looking at flowers in a different way. We're really looking at color palettes. And so I think, you know, you on a space, you might say, Oh, I know color theory, but we really do such a deep dive into the psychology to of what the customer perceives when they look at a picture on your website and how we translate that, how we start viewing flowers, not as a florist and looking at design, not as the way that we are accustomed to.

See it by starting to sort of open up our eyes to how the customer and the consumer views it and letting that, you know, sort of dictate how we fulfill these recipes, you know, and, and really, you know, Everything for me is always at the heart of like, okay, how can I save money and how can I buy less, use what I have and make my customers happy.

Vonda: So this whole training that you have done with your employees, your staff, because like you just mentioned, you know, in the summer you do kind of staff training and I'm sure this was something that you work with every one of your new employees that come in to really empower them to be able to make the decision on their own.

Abby: Yeah, because it starts with the conversation When you're selling, you know, because that's the thing you don't want to sell the specific things right in, in, you know, say, Oh, it's going to be this, this and this.

We all, we know that. I mean, at least from my sales training that I got from Flower Clique, I know how to sell without promising specifics, but what about when people have looked at your website and let's be honest, the vast majority of customers now have seen a picture, they have something in their mind.

It's not like 10, 15, 20 years ago when they, you know, physically had to come into your shop and look at a catalog for them to have a visual image in their mind. And so we have to really change the way That, you know, we're approaching design now that customers do have, at least they think they have an idea of what they want.

So there's just a lot more, I don't want to say it's more work, but it's a different approach for sure. Um, but it's proven very successful, uh, for me and my whole team.

Vonda: And I think the difference is like you and I look at the flowers and we're the designers and then we have Lori who, you know, she's not a designer, she's our consumer and she's really one that we've bounced a lot off of because of that reason, because it's like, Lori, tell us what you see here.

What, what would you think this difference would be? And, and you're always very honest with us on that, Lori.

Lori: I am. And one of the things I try to remind you guys is sometimes you have to take your designer hat off, right? When, when you are talking to the customer and not get bogged down with the specific details of intricacies of the flowers, because number one, it overwhelms me and I start not knowing what you're talking about and start feeling stupid.

Um, number two, it, it takes the conversation out of what I'm wanting. So if you start focusing on, you know, what, we don't have that particular thing, but you know what we do have and start getting, it's all about selling the, the tone, the excitement of what you do have. Vonda, you have always said, anytime we're talking with a customer, regardless of what they want, we never have to use the words: “No, I'm sorry. We don't have that.”

Even if you don't have a particular flower, we should always be able to substitute something, right? Hence why we're doing the art of substitution. From a customer standpoint, you should be able to tell me, you can provide the same look. It's the same color, the same vibrancy, the same style, that's really all I want.

And so I think sometimes too much knowledge from a designer's perspective can almost be a hindrance.

Vonda: So, after the conversation with your customer, with you, Abby and I go back into the design room and say, Hey, this is what customer Lori is looking for. How can we make that happen with what we have here in the store? Yeah. And that's the training that Abby is really going to go over with us in this session.

Lori: Exactly. That's why I think it's, so important. And I love that almost every flower shop website that I have seen, especially any Flower Clique member they have on their website, you know, we we do our best to replicate everything to the exact. However, there are times we have to make some substitutions, but we take pride in you know, you word it however you want but make sure the customer knows look we're gonna do our best to make it look exactly how you want but sometimes, we're going to have to make a few changes, but we promise it's still going to have the same value and integrity and beauty.

Abby: One of my favorite parts of the webinar is that we actually go into the thought process of okay we've got this disclaimer but here is where you draw the line and say do we call, do we not call about the substitutions? Like we really attack it from so many angles of the design choices, the flower selection, the psychology behind what a customer sees, and then how to make those judgment calls.

When is it appropriate to substitute and rely on that disclaimer. And you know, what's so funny about this too, is right before we hopped on here, perusing the, you know, online forums, and somebody had posted this picture of a design, and she was questioning her flower math. She was asking all these other designers, like, hey, this lady wanted this picture, and I did the math.

It had 17 zinnias in it. I know, 17 zinnias in, in the centerpiece. And a bunch of other things, and it came out to $185, and she was saying, How would you price it out? And what I wanted to say is, this isn't a matter of you not pricing out that picture exactly. This is about you being able to fulfill this look for less for the and I'm not saying $35-50, but I would have been able to have a conversation with my customer and say, I love this. You know, if we want to make it exactly like the picture, it's going to be $185, but by layering this, you know, having the confidence to meet the customer's expectations at a budget closer to what they have in mind. I mean, that's part of this conversation is that you're not saying I can only do it for this because I have literally no other skills to make anything than the exact recipe, right?

It really goes, I think, even if you are not a daily designer. The skills that we sort of teach in this apply to quoting for weddings when you've got inspiration pictures and you're trying to make something that's in a completely different season. So we're making this look and feel with literally none of the same flowers or, you know, I like this look and feel, but I'm trying to do this palette instead.

You know, it's really applicable across all different types of floristry, whether you're doing daily work, event work, weddings, you know, if you are designing. For a customer, you have to know how to produce something that they're going to be happy with, no matter what you have on hand.

Vonda: It's clicking all the boxes, right, of perceived value and profitability, which gives the customer what they need and gives you what you need as well.

So if you haven't signed up, make sure you do. If you're listening to this when it's passed, you can still sign up and get the recording. So it's something that you really will not be sorry that you took the time to really listen to all the in depth information that Abby has on this. So yeah, it's great.

Lori: I want to go back, if you don't mind, I have a question about the, the disclaimer, and you were talking about when to call, when not to call. So my question would be, If I'm calling you and I'm ordering a specific arrangement from your website and let's say as I like to call it, you know, the star of the show and the arrangement are three beautiful, bright pink peonies, and you don't have them.

Say I ordered them and the girl, the part-time little cute college girl that works there took the order. She didn't know you didn't have them. She just took the order.

Abby: Um, were you in my shop yesterday?

Lori: I know everything about all of our Cliquers, you know that. We have cameras everywhere.

No, so my question is, do you call if you don't have the star of the show, or do you just make a reasonable – because I know you, and I know all of your designers and their skills, you could do a really good substitution. However, you also know a peony is a peony. And, and I do know what a peony is. You know, I may not know many, but I know what those look like.

And I know how much I love those. Do you call for those substitutions?

Abby: So I can't give you a blanket answer because as we'll get into in the webinar, it actually depends on the type of design that it's in and it depends on the other flowers that it's paired with and the price point and, you know, how it's used in the design and also that might be you.

Okay, but another customer. Might not have had any idea that it was a peony and there's no way especially if you've ordered off my website And we haven't talked right so there's a couple of different approaches here based on how the order was placed you know and we get into all of that and the other thing you know with those disclaimers is It says, uh, you know, the florist has right to make suitable substitution.

Well, what is a suitable substitution to you is going to be completely different than a suitable substitution to a customer. So, without really having an understanding of that, there's so much room for error, which means there's a lot of room for a complaint. You know, at the end of the day, heading off a complaint is priority one for me in everything I do.

Lori: Exactly. Yeah. No, that's good. I mean those, those are all questions. I too am on some of these florist to florist pages and, and thinking through your comment about the person with the Zinnia thing, you know, do you look at value? Do you feel, okay, so somebody wanted a $50 arrangement? Well, and I don't have all 18 Zinnia, do I just put in three roses and call, I mean, you know, it's going to look like this instead of this.

How do you accommodate that?

Vonda: You're going to have to come to the webinar and find out Lori.

Lori: Well, I know I'll be there. I'm just trying to incentivize other people.

Vonda: I know. I know. Great questions. Great questions. Very good. So we're looking forward to seeing everyone there. Um, Abby, do you have any other last thoughts?

Abby: Just that we're really excited to be doing this again. And I think the last time too, we got so much great feedback and we got a lot of great questions that I would say this time we, we've actually made it even better, if you can believe that. So for me, I'm having my entire team watch this training.

So while this is great for owners, I would personally have, you know, your entire team watch it if you can. And, you know, you've got the recording. I had my team actually go through the slide deck from our last one because I was like, man, this is like the best way, you know, putting it down into a formal education.

It was, you know, very to the point and very easy for them to understand from all the angles. So I've already used it internally with some of my new employees.

Lori: I love it. We actually had a shop who they have multiple shops and all their designers want to come to it. And so. Ellie did a… and I don't know I may get in trouble for doing this, but she did like set up like a buy-one, get-one free because they have so many designers. So if you are listening and you have a thing like that where all your designers want their own email and login, email me lori@flowerclique.com. And, and I can give you that code if you are an owner and all your designers want their own login, email me, I'll get you all of the information.

Vonda: And so we're looking forward to it, Abby. So we'll see you tomorrow.

Abby: Yeah! Thanks for having me.